On 12-12-17, NYSDEC announced the discovery of two new oak wilt locations in Glenville NY. A fungicide can also sometimes be used as a preventative measure as well. Residential treatment applications can be confounded by underground infrastructure, driveways, walks, gardens, property lines and many other factors. Science is about observation, and the logical organization of it into something useful. Replacing the insulin in a diabetic will keep them from dying today, but they are still going to die as a result of having diabetes. Based upon the current interpretation of the SM espoused in this thread, all of humanity could bare witness to an event or occurrence but it would only be an apparition or myth without the blessings of the scientific community. Any publishable research requires time and money not just expertise. Tonight, Im going to start soaking some corn meal, and tomorrow Ill hand-apply it to one particularly rusty daylily, as well as working some corn meal into the soil around this plant. Its been my observation that they love plants with small flowers, not sure why, but I allow certain types of weeds to grow and they feed off of them and then go and kill many of the pests. *ahem* View all posts by Linda Chalker-Scott, So I followed the link to the article. Dr. Chalker-Scott wrote that corn meal is not a fungicide. All inventions/discoveries are first ridiculed. Lindas contribution to gardeners was recognized in 2017 by the Association for Garden Communicators as the first recipient of their Cynthia Westcott Scientific Writing Award. Preventive applications on live oaks at risk for root graft infection can be as high as 90 percent. If Bertrand Russell came up to me and told me there was a teapot orbiting the sun but was too small to see the burden of proof would be on him and I can choose not to believe him until he can prove it then I have no obligation to backup my doubt. If you would like to know more about oak wilt, how to identify it, and the potential treatment options, there are several good resources availa-ble. Liquid organic N sources for use in microirrigation systems may have additional disadvantages caused by loss of valuable nutrient N that is removed by filters.. Cmon folks if your information is so great, do you really need to pretend youre someone else? SIR is real and it is working. It could cripple the tree, or maybe even kill it. Cornmeal has become one of the staple products that I talk about every day as Im sure you know but it is confusing. Oak wilt, a disease caused by an invasive species of fungus, kills hundreds of . Is there anything I can do for grubs In garden? Dr. Jerry Parsons article above also comments on extrapolating petri dish science to the field: He [Dr. Larry Barnes of Texas A&M] indicated that the petri dish test is only an indicator of what might work in the soil and the petri dish test alone SHOULD NEVER BE USED as a positive indicator of effectiveness of a product. Starkey, Dale. Any thoughts on this? Remove diseased oaks to stop the above-ground movement of the disease. White oaks will show infected annual rings when viewed in cross section. Thank you! One treated tree was an historic veteran. It wouldnt be patentable and it wouldnt be able to compete with grocery store/costco corn meal in most places. No treatment was necessary or effective, i.e., changing weather patterns solved the disease problem naturally and the insect population went on their merry way after they completed their foliage-eating larval stage. MSU is an affirmative-action, equal-opportunity employer, committed to achieving excellence through a diverse workforce and inclusive culture that encourages all people to reach their full potential. Rick, you dont need an ivory tower in which to conduct research look at Gregor Mendels groundbreaking genetic research on common peas in a monastary garden, for example. Hi Anne That would dispel his theory of simply nurturing soil to take care of the problem. I sent a photo of the infected leaves to a friend in the U.S. who I feel knows much more about horticulture than do I. I need 12 bucks, 30 minutes of my time to spread it, and 3-4 weeks to see if I notice a difference in my lawn. Michigan State University Extension, 2016. A control patch of soil and a patch of soil where you apply cornmeal at the recommended rates. A barrier should be at least four, and prefer- ably five feet deep. During the summer, foresters locate, examine and confirm sites infected with the oak wilt disease. If you follow the link to her bio you are presented with this Marie is the former owner of Yore Vegetables, an heirloom seedling nursery. (As a footnote, let me say how annoying it is when gardening personalities grant themselves advanced degrees or certifications in their titles. Because the product distributors do not want to take the chance of failure. https://www.facebook.com/groups/GardenProfessors/, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience, http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/pseudosci.html, http://diyorganiclawncare.blogspot.com/2012/07/how-to-treat-lawn-disease-organically.html, http://publications.tamu.edu/PEANUTS/PUB_peanuts_Texas%20Peanut%20Production%20Guide.pdf, http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%20Chalker-Scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/index.html, http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/orglawn/msg011021471220.html?15, Deconstructing the cornmeal myth The Garden Professors, Cornmeal magic the myth that will not die The Garden Professors. She is WSUs Extension Urban Horticulturist and a Professor in the Department of Horticulture, and holds two affiliate associate professor positions at University of Washington. Trichoderma and Systemically Induced Resistance. Oak Wilt in Minnesota. The original document that has been referenced by others is no longer online but many references to it are still around. Often pride comes before the fall. Your recommendations as you have offered them are appreciated, but totally inconsistent with the tone/message of your Myth Busting treatise. For red oaks, pale young green or brown leaves can be observed during the spring in infected trees. Im not going to reply to your attempts at sarcasm re: bubbles and smoking, because your vocabulary suggests you know better (although your argument suggests the opposite). I dont know what distributors you speak off. It would appear that Ms. Scott also has no evidence as cornmeals efficacy. Yet, there are some who swear it works. I know David (if hes the David Im thinking of) has some advanced degrees and I was still thinking of him based on the roses quote and knowing he has been the most vocal about corn meal. If you want to post a disagreement in his newsletter, itll cost you. My trials are far, far, far from scientific, but then we ALL have a lot to learn! We have also started using the cornmeal water for other fungal diseases including Hypoxylon Canker, both Ganoderma, and Kretzschmaria (charcoal rot or burnt crust rot). Bricault, Bob. See link below for pictures of purplish streaks on corn leaves with bone meal, plus yellowing of young leaves. If symptoms are observed in more than 30 percent of the crown, it is unlikely a fungicide injection will be effective. He called 6 weeks later to ask for mixing directions. Im not familiar with any UGA study (which as far as I can tell hasnt been published and Ive been through that literature exhaustively). I want to thank you for this opportunity to give my little story about cornmeal. Next spring, many of our seedlings were already blooming. Bridwell Agricultural Center, 111 N. Burnett St., Wichita Falls, Rosenberg Civic Center, 3825 Texas Highway 36, Rosenberg, G. Rollie White Visitor Center, 7707 Raymond Stotzer Parkway, College Station, local Texas A&M Forest Service representative, Texans can take steps to prevent spread of oak wilt, East Texas now noticing freeze damage on forest trees, Owning Your Piece of Texas: Key Laws Texas Landowners Need to Know. Id like to know why? So Johannes, this rants for you! I already quoted it earlier. New Oak Wilt Locations Found in Glenville . That said, severing affected roots is an uncommon treatment for oak wilt. Do an actual test and report back. By then we no longer used the broadcast method because of issues with squirrels, deer, and fire ants. Leaves of infected oaks can wilt, brown at the edges, and fall off. Thank you for this forum to support Mr. Howard Garrett and his good work bringing the Natural Way Mainstream. Wounds created by the ice storm are no longer fresh and do not need to be painted; however, any new wounds created during cleanup must be painted immediately, said Texas A&M Forest Service biologist, Robert Edmonson. Even if the wound does become infected, if the tree can successfully compartmentalize, it will starve any pests in the wound of oxygen, thus suffocating them. If the would is severe, or there are other trees in the area with oak wilt, a preventative treatment of a fungicide may be a good idea. I dont know who he is. Please read the articles to get the science-based information, and dont rely on recipes found on non-educational sites. The latter is the larger problem from my perspective for the reasons I expressed in my post of Feb. 12. I had a medical doctor laugh at us when we applied Trichoderma to two mature Sycamore on his ranch. Oak wilt is a disease caused by a fungus. 1 This starts at the top of the tree, which is not easy to inspect in tall trees. Since the fungus enters the tree through wounds, avoid injuring oaks between April and August. Oak wilt is a vascular wilt disease caused by a fungus that infects the water-conducting tissues of oak trees and causes them to wilt and die. My post tomorrow will look at what function cornmeal serves in microbial communities.I too had found the abstracts you mention, but the articles themselves are not available because they are so old (and the second is in Afrikaans, which I dont speak). That will be 100 square feet in total (10 feet by 10 feet). For a portion of these trees, however, a pressing threat looms. I wish it had been. This morning, I ordered 150 pounds of agricultural cornmeal, which I will apply to my brown St. Augustine grass every few weeks. Its dangerous taking lab results and applying them to field situations. To quote Dr. Jerry Parsons again (the link to his column is in the original post): Do you wonder why further testing in field conditions have not been performed? Once a month like clockwork dad and I would load up the spreader with corn meal and spread it on the lawn. However, at least some of the oak forest resource can be managed to remain in the landscape. That was before science figured out it was dangerous. I got up extra early so that nobody would see me and think I was crazy. A single stand will drive-up the unit price. Success with therapeutic treatments is better when less infection is present. This masks the odour of the fungal . Thanks, but Im pretty sure we all knew that already! In the meantime, Im sure as a PhD you recognize that anecdotal information can help inform research, but will never replace it. Lets just cut to the chase. So I am naturally suspicious of anyone who talks about absolutes. You can also try using commercially available Trichoderma Fungi (do a web search) on those plants that have rusts. Cornmeal is beneficial to get rid of cutworms. So far, we have been pleased with the results and clients call asking for an annual re-treatment or ask for direction so they can mix their own. So far, we have not had to do a second injection on any Live Oaks that have been treated this way. At the 2016 ITC in Washington D.C., two studies done in Italy were presented using Trichoderma to treat diseases. My daylilies have been sprayed with every recommended fungicide, to no avail. Vibratory plows that reach five feet deep are not common and often unavailable. To learn more about the symptoms of oak wilt and how to . Dr. Joe McFarland headed that work before his retirement. Reference to commercial products or trade names does not imply endorsement by MSU Extension or bias against those not mentioned. On my plot here in the Uk ( London) it works quite well for me and the more organic matter you can work into a soil the better and helps to prevent a build up of pathogens and helps to maintain a balance of microbial material within the soil. I have no idea why! "The Garden Professors" Facebook group - www.facebook.com/groups/GardenProfessors It is much harder for a tree to compartmentalize a wound that has been previously dressed. Trusader, Linda Chalker-Scott, I too suffered dreadfully with toenail fungus as a result of playing tennis for many years. Then were referred to further research (at an undisclosed location) where cornmeal was shown to contain beneficial organisms. Well, no, cornmeal doesnt contain organisms, beneficial or otherwise. Isnt it possible that corn meal happens to be particularly good at increasing the population of trichoderma compared to other OMs? Sap beetles are attracted by wounds in a tree, such as breakage from a storm, pruning cuts, and involuntary mechanical damage. Our success has been drenching in conjunction with Alamo injection. She did not write in fact, she was very careful about not writing that corn meal not being a fungicide does not mean that it is without benefit. should be growing in the soil. The publication I first mentioned, page 114, section 5.4.2 Anti Fungal Activity. I am not passionate about #1, but it has been my anecdotal experience that cornmeal is efficacious in many applications and I have done side by side comparisons here in the Caribbean which support my hypothesis. Avoiding physical damage to oaks between mid-April to mid-August is wise. Fungal mats will not form and it will take much longer for the tree to succumb to the disease. Measures can be taken to break root connections between live oaks or dense groups of red oaks to reduce or stop root transmission of the oak wilt fungus. Everyone trying to do the environmentally friendly-to-a-fault thing have been wasting their money. This starts at the top of the tree, which is not easy to inspect in tall trees. Test needs to be done during the growing season and soil must be moist. Since it was free, they agreed. Bravo, and jeez, people what part of we deal with science and you folks appreciate home remedies and thats ok but we just cant endorse that?????? Oak wilt is most severe in the red oak species group such as northern red oak ( Quercus rubra) and northern pin oak ( Quercus ellipsoidalis). Matthew, please note that the author (me) did not say this. We let the cornmeal soak in the water for about 6 hours and then dumped the cornmeal water in the shallow trench around the base of each tree, the well we created with the air spade to expose flare and roots. And the Wikipedia defense lame. The half I have sprayed with the corn meal are now totally free of rust and have new leaves which are also free of fungi. Because it would be highly unprofessional for professionals to pass out unsupported information in their field of expertise. While feeding on the sweet-smelling fungal mat, these beetles, about one-quarter to one-eighth of an inch, pick up the spores and thereby spread the disease further. You would need a reasonable size of say 10 square feet per lot (for a small garden). Trees can compartmentalize wounds, closing the area off from the rest of the tree and outside. Now, what about the slugs? And yes, it is up to Camp Cornmeal to prove that it works. Look. No one in my part of the world gives away free wood chips or free mulch. Download Pest Sheet To accomplish this task, a vibratory plow slices five feet into the ground. As such you move the burden of proof that you argue for from those with anecdotal evidence to yourself. Oak wilt is a vascular wilt disease caused by a fungus that infects the water-conducting tissues of oak trees and causes them to wilt and die. In red oaks, this condition may bring on early autumn-like coloration while surrounding trees are green. Good health does not improve resistance to this disease. His talk was on the Use of Biologicals and Their Potential for Soil Borne Disease Management. Good science uses clear and precise methodologies and these old wives tales dont meet that standard, however that does not mean the practice does not work; merely that we do not know why or why not it MAYor may not work. When we lived in the country, and first put in large new daylily beds, one end section did have cornmeal incorporated in the soil, along with other organic products. Oak wilt can also spread through the transportation of firewood from oak-wilt trees to new areas, so make sure you don't move infested wood. Thats one avenue worth pursuing. I had leaf spot showing up on my irises when they began growing in February this year. Oak wilt is one of the most destructive tree diseases in the U.S., killing millions of trees in 76 counties of Central, North and West Texas. You dont need ballistics gel or explosives for this one. As I have read this blog, I see two issues at play: (1) the efficacy of cornmeal as an organic fungicide or preventative and (2)the approach of Mrs. Scott in what has been described repeatedly described in this thread as arrogant, dogmatic and less than user friendly. Try to capture some and take them into your county Extension office. Your comments are well founded! Both have some efficacy on certain types of foliar disease. I am planning on doing an update on this topic tomorrow, if for no other reason than to stop adding to this thread! Juzwik, Jennifer. Use as a flare root injection for prevention/treatment of oak wilt, Dutch elm disease, sycamore anthracnose, cedar apple rust, scab, and other leaf diseases of flowering crabapple. As pesticides become less effective, as they become banned for use, as they kill beneficial organisms and pollinators, we need alternatives. Its pretty simple to set up. case the use of cornmeal as a fungicide) because of its lack of study and peer-review by other scientists. In the absence of potatoes a heavy soil infestation in late autumn practically disappeared by the following June. Lol. And the fact that something is based on anecdotes,is not the same as saying you have proof that it is incorrect. In the spring, red oaks that died of the disease last summer and fall may produce spore mats under the bark. Glenville was the site of the first find in New York State back in 2008. That's why we now recommend it for use on brown patch in St. Augustine grass, damping off in seedlings, black spot on roses and many other fungal diseases. I believe you could have avoided much of this comment hoopla (and thus my entertainment this morning) if you had only said There is no published evidence that cornmeal is fungicidal instead of Myth Busted!, Finally, though I admire your academic rigor, all honest scientists admit that new knowledge is ever arising and that proven, published literature is constantly being revised, updated, and thrown out. If you look at the TAMU peanut document they didnt say they applied cornmeal agar to the peanuts or that they grew trichoderma on the CGA in the lab and then applied it to the soil. As of yet I dont know of any other scientific documentation or experimentation that shows positive results using cornmeal as a fungicide. From the abstract: A survey of different batches of corn meal for the inhibition of their fungal flora by propionic acid, benzoic acid, potassium sorbate, and Mold-X, a commercial inhibitor composed of four organic acids, revealed differences in inhibition so extreme that the batches of corn meal could be categorized as sensitive or resistant to the effects of an inhibitor.. Count (estimate) the population of trichoderma in control and test soils before application of cornmeal, count the populations each day and see if the population of trichoderma has increased in the cornmeal soil compared to the control and possibly compare population of trichoderma to other fungi for comparison. Once they are identified you can choose something that will work. I am fed up with experts who spout strong opinions about something they never validated. I used to live in Texas and about 15-18 years ago met the good DirtDoctor and had even discovered he and I are alums of the same University, which according to Tim on the June 30th posting, so is the author of the article, Marie Annotti. Compost and cover crops are commonly used sources of N for vegetables because they are relatively inexpensive and offer additional nutrients or soil improvement qualities in addition to N. Studies have shown that compost quality factors that affect N mineralization vary by source and among different batches from the same source. This publication doesnt possess the hard data. Notwithstanding the hornets nest you kicked? And on a more practical note: if this truly was a consistent, effective fungicide, dont you think the organic companies would already be selling it as such? (There is one paper, however, that found no effect of cornmeal in controlling Rhizoctonia on containerized grapevines.) This is a testable hypothesis, but it has not been tested by the author.So this is also just an opinion piece. (A certified arborist can make a recommendation for your tree and apply it via injection.). Its just a statement without any support. By trying to bust the myth you actually helped reinforce the fact that cornmeal has some anti-fungal qualities based on those that actually have tried it, seen the results first hand. I followed a discussion on gardenweb and a test someone carried out, using cornmeal and granulated sugar. Respectfully, gardening has a long history of traditional practices being debunked by scientists only to be later validated by other scientists. Hmmm.maybe thats whats wrong with me. Please excuse me if this sounds pessimistic, but Ive noticed in my life that most good things humans create or touch end up turning into a form of fertilizer. clip this post email this post what is this? If You Need Tree Care, Tree Doctor, Arborist or have Sick Trees or Tree Disease in Chico, TX. Many consider autumn the finest season of the year. Thoroughly mixed in the cornmeal and work the soil in the control lot without cornmeal (make sure the control lot has the same treatment of the other lots without the cornmeal that's all); give it a good watering everyday. Thanks for the laughs Linda! Bill Cook, Michigan State University Extension - Maybe there is something else going on that has been overlooked or not considered? Unlike houseplants with root rot, you cannot sever the affected roots of a tree with oak wilt. If an oak gets injured during that time period, you should support the tree in its healing by minimizing stress wherever possible. Published September 27, 2020. Before someone goes bad mouthing it, they should try it for themselves. I meant funguis become rezilant to fungucides. Until someone publishes a controlled, repeatable experiment on the efficacy of cornmeal for any horticultural purpose, it will not be recommended as a pesticide by any reputable Extension specialist. Corn meal may encourage the growth of other organisms that in turn kill or reduce fungus, but on its own corn meal is not a fungicide, if anything its just food for organisms which in turn kill fungus maybe. Despite her enthusiastic sarcasm and self-proclaimed claim of mythology, Mrs. Scott has no authoritative expertise of her own on this subject. It appears, therefore, that C. solani depends entirely on parasitic nutrition for its persistence in the soil. #3. In 2016, we again treated all five Live Oaks with a cornmeal drench, but I charged for the treatment, $125 plus tax for 5 trees. Will it make it through the Gosh I have a PH.D and only I know the Scientific Method Filter. That would require a controlled, scientific experiment. I am quoting someone else. The data appear to be out there, its just a question of finding them. If not you can say the myth is busted. The disease quickly spreads to nearby oaks. Corn meal works! Im sorry to report that the combination of corn meal juice and cornmeal worked into the soil was not effective against the daylily rust. Dr, Chalker-Scott, Surrounded by weeds and native grass, none of them ever developed any rust whatsoever. Matt, the problem with your quoted reference is that there are no data. I have to wonder if they work for some of the chemical companies that get rich off of selling their expensive, polluting, chemical poisons. The first year I picked 2- five gallon buckets of bag worms off of it. When youve done so, then Ill be more than happy to read and respond to the article. Trenching as a Root-Graft Disruption Treatment for Oak Wilt bySteven Pregler To prevent the spread of oak wilt, it is recommended that severing the roots between infected and healthy trees be part of the overall management plan. It is the job of other perhap skeptical scientists to repeat the work in a rigorous controlled manner in order to disprove the hypothesis. Damage to oaks from residential activity should be avoided during this time period, especially pruning. If you get a chance, play with Trichoderma and see what it will do for your disease control. I knew who you were referring to before I even followed the link to the article which is the reason for the laughs. Thanks for giving us a chuckle. Your name in Spanish means beautiful, but your rants arent exactly that. Since these writers have actual boots on the ground from all over the world, there must be something to this idea. 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