In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. Anyone who wants to talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd, leave your number. We've put together a list of some ways . What does being your authentic self really mean, in the context of community groups? I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. Their countenances in the video departure statements appear to be quite different. The streamlined interface is proper for any user, no matter if that individual is used to dealing with such software or . Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! the family in a 1970s 2,100 sf home of their own in the suburbs may feel they have the short end of the stick, and see the family in the newer 3,400 sf home as having amazing luxuries. Not now. He first goes into the definition of the word cult which in latin is the word cultus, defined as to inhabit, dwell; to cultivate. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? Eight-time Top 100 Places to Work winner Watermark Community Church finds that patience is a virtue Church kept the faith and finds itself on top of the list after 7 consecutive . It is Lord that gives and takes it away. No wonder the process of disciplining and removing an elder within this structure is so dysfunctional theres no independent accountability. Religious Organization. Small group of meeting once a week. I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. You may be thinking of a different Todd Wagner, who is a longtime partner of Mark Cuban. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. Being your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they say. Todd Wagner was preaching. It appears to attract a fairly high income crowd if their building program is any indication of the amount of money coming into the church. yes, things do not add up. Positional authority deals with executing responsibilities within an organization, like a general in an army, the president of bank, or the pastor of a church. OK. Watermark Community Church is a nondenominational evangelical megachurch based in Dallas, Texas . * For What? Of course, God has a very different definition of success than we do. He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark Church. A church membership contract errr. If you dont want to share about your finances you dont have to. well, the current working job description for leaders of a big church is being ready, willing, and able to obfuscate, embroider the truth, and in some cases lie. Are you calling smarmy, insincere? Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there = works. By our measure our savior Jesus was a total and complete failure. Stonebriar Community Church. Its upto Him. What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. Why wouldnt the devil try to tempt and discredit a Christian leader whos been respected by so many and positively influenced so many? The Yelp algorithm is strange. Related Pages. What a bizarre statement. Childcare was free. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously? A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. In our church, this is clearly laid out during the membership process. -. The man and his wife were Watermark members. This crook has got to go. Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. Who Will Pay for the SBCs Abuse Reforms Over the Long Term? Humility, self-awareness of our own sins, repentance, forgiveness and grace for others, these should not be forgotten. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. He said at the time that he was not guilty of disqualifying sin like sexual immorality, financial misconduct, or foul languagesomething Wagner reiterated when he announced his resignation. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. True humility is replaced with a very shallow and false one and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw. Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. Key points: The Florida Conference is facing a lawsuit filed by more than 100 of its churches. Im happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this is absolutely wrong information. Smarmy Dictionary Amy Smith of the blog Watchkeep has documented her experience there, and it bears much of the hallmarks of a cult. He began to consider that he was in a cult. It sounds like maybe you want Todd to fall in line with the way you think things should be instead of what is biblical. Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. Visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday . In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. . And so have I. If you are going to judge Watermark, its leaders and programs, then I would encourage you to do so in the context of Scripture, especially the New Testament, including the gospels and the epistles that talk about church order, and yes, even discipline. Spiritual authority is the result of Gods power shown through spiritual gifts and deep experiences with God. Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. Author: this is unequivocally WRONG. Case Summary. Many churches won't consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said. As directed by Scripture, Watermark makes a distinction between regularly attending and being a formal member of our church. You cant find any. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. When this article was written, Not to mention that even if the words are perfect its up to the listeners as to how they interpret it. He publicly criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the media and then doesnt really share his issues. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Ive spoken to these people and I believe them. The man and woman had been accused by the man's wife and by the church of being romantically involved. Todd especially. I canRead more , I can tell you that I know Todd Wagner personally over 20 years ago. When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, I am not the only former Watermarker out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.. Im still waiting for more transparency but doubt we will get if from Wagner as that pride runs deep. Regardless I loved your passion and pray that Holy Spirit would cover you and lead you in the area that needs correction. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. Wowza, what does Whoopie have to do with this? Scripture also says live your neighbor as yourself.folks many of you here have already missed that mark. Watermark Video: Women's Channel 8y ago Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. From my own experience, the leadership problems I have seen in churches have more to do with the character of the people in power rather than the type of governance. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. In this murky situation, however, the two men dont need honorary titles. christian leaders who are not straightforward and forthright cannot be healthy. covenant, In the Bible, can you name The whole situation reeks of status and power, neither of which is a good look for a pastor. As for two doctrinal statements, our church has something similar, one for members and one for leaders. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. obey your leaders? I wish he was still there and I know I would be living nearby and attending with spirit filled days and nights studying what he preached. To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. Wow! No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! But why? There are more than one people with the name Todd Wagner. Have you heard of Life Water? This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). Forgot account? . But please make sure your referencing the right guy. Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. If you challenged him or the church you were quickly dismissed. It is all about leveraging God not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about how successful they are. I really enjoyed the music and people. * For What? A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. Theyre not only going to write you off but theyll make sure your entire community group does too.Read more , [] of absence in September 2020 to work on prideful sin that was increasingly becoming visible to church members. I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. One of our trusted partners, Elam Ministries, is currently working with its local churches in Turkey to help provide food, blankets, tents, and other basic supplies. This is absolutely nothing like a Joel Osteen situation. Readers write about Watermark Community Church's stance on gays, Ken Paxton suing Brownsville, black lives also matter, Michelle Obama and Dallas Stars fans. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. The only fees were for the materials we used. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. Does God want everyone to be broke? I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. Religious double talk. Hi. May we bear one anothers confessions with grace and mercy. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. Pastor Todd Wagner, abuse. Susan says she is now happy to be away from Watermark Church and is healing. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. First and foremost- this is a season that God is shaking things up. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. But it still feels like something is off. WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Grace Community Church's lawsuit "seeks to prohibit California from enforcing its unconstitutional and onerous coronavirus pandemic regulations." Link copied Aug. 14, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. Darren, I was thinking about this a little more think about the language you use explaining how elders are held to a higher standard doctrinally speaking. The teaching statement wasnt explained to me in the membership process. and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. It looks as if an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Fellowship Church. File photo of fans at a Dallas Stars . Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. He didnt even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude. Not every word from a person in a pulpit will always be perfect considering that they are imperfect humans and will admit it. I bet some of you, dont attend or are part of the church, Jealousy amongst many of you I can smell from here. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. Or evasion? This piece has been updated. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. I went through the Re:Engage program twice early in its development. 25 years ago, I found myself getting angry atRead more , I was a WM member until I realized that if you fail their morality assessment and they decide you have a pride issue, not a desperate, destitute, homeless or depression issue.. When I watched his stepping back/pride/ sin talk, I wanted to either vomit or laugh out loud.. I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. In principle it was excellent. For every story that IRead more . Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. Regardless Lords will be done Prov 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. Evangelical Church. A lower court has already ruled that the church is free to release private information about its members. Im sorry to hear of judgement that has been passed around. Pastors often receive the most judgement and its rarely considered that they likely face the most spiritual warfare. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. Not to gotcha, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesnt make it unrealistic that Todds family was gifted that house. BUT are now returned to I went back several times others preached but werent as good holding an audiences attention as Todd Wagner and the full content with historical and life referces and quoting scripture just wasnt there like Todd Wagner.. then they said Watermark Plano was becoming its own church. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. seems to me median, or less, is reasonable (relative to the community where the church exists). and so much mimicked behavior amongst the group. Friends, theres a lot of speculation here. He can be only the center ofRead more . to the woman in mumbai who lives with her family in a sheet metal lean-to in a slum and keeps it spic and span, tidy, and as homey as possible (a hero in my mind), lavish would be a walls and a roof of some kind. It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. If youre short on time, start at 27 minutes when the speakers starts explaining why people think Watermark is a cult. A calendar of future events, classes, Bible studies, and programs happening with Watermark Community Church. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. . Kind of smarmy too. Watermark Church Lawsuit. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said.. Thanks for giving up the last word. When this article was written, TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Came off as legalistic trolling. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . Different guys. How do you know Todd pays that? There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. Our church has an elder-type rule that is healthy, but I know of churches that have had an elder-type rule that is not so healthy. Products. Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. Worth 1-2 million. a smarmy, unctuous reply. Just study what a grandiose narcissist is and you will see why. The only thing I can discern between the lines is that something went very wrong. Im heart broke and still excited to see what Lord and how He is going to carry out this. Incorrect. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 I think you may have missed a decimal point according to the link in the post his house (verified to be the correct Todd Wagner) was a little over $1.5 million as of 2019. At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. Plan Your Visit Discover Watermark Membership Events Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol. Ive been a member at Watermark for ~6 years (after a bunch of other churches in CA) and I can tell you the vast majority of the accusations and conclusions made in this thread about Watermark culture, the elders, Todd, etc are unequivocally wrong. The reason for this is because, as an elder, he will be responsible for teaching others. Maybe because I have not had a negative experience with elder rule I do not see it as a problem. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. -, Watermark Community Church has believers SIGN I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. On 05/28/2008 THE STATE OF TEXAS filed a Property - Eminent Domain lawsuit against WATERMARK COMMUNITY CHURCH. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. utterly un-credible. As stated above, dont confuse Todd Wagner the billionaire with Todd Wagner the pastor though Todd Wagner the pastor does live in a home valued between 1 and 2 million dollars. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? Amazing indeed! Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. Where appropriate, upon request,. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. During his address to the Watermark Community Church congregation in September, Wagner told them [], Did anyone see this Sundays Sermon? You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home. In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. Not sure how much of a money maker it is since all we spend money on is the workbooks. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. We don't remove someone's formal status as a member for struggling with sin - whether that sin is pride, materialism, or sexual sin. f450 cummins swap, Departure statements appear to be away from Watermark church and is healing.. he is going to carry this... One and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw put together a list some... 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